Lila Gaudrault- Finding Ultras Young & Conquering Cocodona

Today we’re joined by Maine ultra-runner Lila Gaudrault — a rising star on the New England trail scene and fresh off an incredible finish at the Cocodona 250. From winning her first 50K at 18 years old to balancing elite racing with work as a home hospice nurse, Lila’s story is as inspiring as it is impressive. We’ll talk ultra running, mental toughness, and her unforgettable 250-mile journey from Deep Canyon Ranch to Flagstaff, Arizona.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Welcome back to the main shakeout. We have another extraordinary guest, somebody who exploded onto the ultra running scene back in 2021 when she ran her first 50K at only 18 years old, fueled by now famously the single scoop of peanut butter, victoriously winning her first ultra race. Indeed, it is Lila Goudreaux, the 23-year-old phenom, fresh off an incredible finish at Coca-Dona, finishing 12th out of 76 females, and then 50th over 267 finishers. Born in Cape Elizabeth, over the past five years, she has racked up an impressive resume on the New England Trail Circuit, including a third place finish at the Vermont 100, all while balancing a very busy career as a home hospice nurse. Today, we get the chance to chat with Lila about how she found running and why she transitioned to the ultra world, why she is so good at this sport. And then we'll get to enjoy her retelling of last week's epic adventure running 250 miles from the Deep Canyon Ranch to Flagstaff, Arizona. Lila, welcome to the pod.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for that nice intro.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Um, I remember watching you run as a high schooler for Cape Elizabeth, and I remember watching you win a state championship title. And then you shifted from winning a state championship title to sort of like, where is Lila? So tell us a little bit about how you grew up in Cape, how you found running, and then where you kind of disappeared to your senior year.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, definitely. So I grew up, I would say active, but not super athletic. Um, I found running in sixth grade. Um, I joined the cross-country team mostly just because one of my friends was doing it. I wasn't really too interested in the whole thing. But my dad had been a runner, so he encouraged me to join and try a team sport. Um, and I ended up really liking it. And um I remember at the end of my season, my sixth grade year, there was this championship race that the top seven runners on the team got to run in. And um I hadn't really been competitive that season. I was kind of just doing it for fun. And um, but I remember the coach um announcing who the top seven runners would be. And when I wasn't one of them, which I wouldn't have been because I hadn't been top seven all season, but I was so angry and I was like, next year, I'm going to make that top seven and be middle school varsity. So that was kind of where the competitive fire started. And then um I continued cross-country into high school. And I learned about ultra running. I think when I was in eighth grade, I was just doing some online research looking for a road race to sign up for in the off season, and ended up on this um like website that talked about local races. And I found um like a trail race, an ultra marathon, and that kind of started my deep dive into that whole world and learning that it existed. So that was something I had in the back of my mind throughout high school that I wanted to be an ultra runner someday. But first I wanted to do the whole NCAA circuit and get the most out of myself in high school and college. So I competed in high school cross-country for three years. I did track one year, but I didn't really like it too much. So I didn't run after my freshman year. And then um when I was a junior, the spring of my junior year, that was when COVID hit. And at the time I had some college visits scheduled. I was planning to um pursue running in college. I was hoping to run Division I and I had some visits scheduled. So um that was kind of right before everything shut down. And when it did, I just started training on my own a lot more and running more trails and mountains and doing more weekly mileage than I had before. And I kind of just realized that I didn't miss the whole cross-country track competitive atmosphere. And I knew that I wanted to do ultras someday, so I figured I might as well just start now. So I ended up not running cross-country my senior year and ran my first 50k that following spring when races started to come back and then just never looked back. I just loved it so much.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

So you're young, you're much younger than I am. And when you were a kid in high school, they could like scroll on social media and follow these ultra runners. Was that something that you did, or did you just simply love the sport? Like, did you follow any of you know like the Courtney DeWalters or the Tommy Rivs or any of those guys?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, that's a good question. I don't remember following anyone too too closely. I think I knew about Courtney DeWalter and the women at the top of the sport and definitely up to them, but there was no one that I really like idolized and was really to follow closely. And really, since I started ultrarunning in the past five years, it's really exploded in popularity and just the prominence of the top ultrarunners in like everyday culture has gotten so much more, yeah, so much bigger, which has been really cool to see. But even when I started, it was like I didn't have a ton of people to look up to because there just weren't, they just weren't as public. It was still this, I don't want to say underground sport, but lesser known. Totally was.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Yeah, totally was an underground sport. I think it's even cooler that you you found this truly on your own for your well-being. Like this was all for you. It's really neat that at 17 years old, even younger. I mean, you were in high school at 14, you said you were looking into this. I don't know that I've ever met another young teen that was looking in the ultra world. Usually it's like the process, you know, we run distance, then you switch to road races, then you run the marathon, then you're like 35, and you're like, I can't run fast anymore, so I'm going to run slow and far. And you have just crushed it from age 17.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

And when I first started ultra running, I kind of did a little bit of everything. I was still doing some road races and I've done a couple marathons. And I continued doing that for a couple years. And then really in the last two years, I've just done ultras because I realized I didn't enjoy the marathons and I didn't enjoy road racing, and I just wanted to do trail running and ultras.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

Do you think it's more the distance that you enjoy or just being in nature like on trails?

SPEAKER_01 6:03

I think it's both. I really like running slow. I don't like running fast. Um, the marathon is just so, so difficult. I would rather be in like a little bit of pain for 30 plus hours than the a hundred percent total pain for the three hours of a marathon or quarter. Um I just so yeah, I just like running slow. I like being out on the trails and feeling like um I'm sort of out there on my own. And um yeah, the road racing is just, I don't know, spectators lining the streets and it's just a little bit too much for me. I like sort of being out on my own. That's how I train, so that's how I like to race.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Yeah, it seems like that's how you've been since sixth grade, too. I mean, you found a competitive side in yourself, but you're not looking to be the center of attention, which is evident because coming off of a state championship title and then not returning the next year, that's just unheard of. So it's so evident that you are confident in doing this for yourself and finding success. Also, to be noted, you didn't miss much your senior year because it was the most god-awful season of running trying to train and race through COVID.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah, and I think the state meet was ultimately canceled. But it was wretched. I mean, like running in masks. Or I mean, I loved cross country and being on the team and racing. Um, but I don't regret the decision that I made.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

So obviously, you're crushing life. Okay, so let's transition. You wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Also, can I just tell you the funniest story? This is just so I just worked, started working at this flower shop that's literally next door. This guy walks in today and he wants to order flowers for this woman who did the coca donut. No way! Like finish because she broke her hip at mile 200 and is in the hospital after having two screws for it. Oh my god. Well, I was like, wait a minute, who are you talking about? Right. And then of course, it's like prom season, so the the flower shop is slammed, and he wants me to watch this like 25 minute video on this over. And I was like, I can't do that, but this is really funny that you just came in. Right? That was today? That was today. This one was so funny. Wow. Yeah. And I was like, well, I don't know how she broke her hip because I had kind of cut him off. But anyways, it was just very funny. It's like what are the chances? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, anyway, if you ran with a Shannon from Maine, she didn't finish, but she did get some nice flowers today.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Okay, good. All right, so shift towards your um, your ultra, I would say lifestyle. Like I know that it was a pretty quick transition for you, but talk about how like that first ultra race that has now been kind of broadcast through all of these podcasts and articles about you. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

So my first ultra race was the big A50K in York. Um, it was in May of 2021. And I was just completely unprepared for it. I'd been running the mileage, getting in the time on feet, but I didn't know any of the specifics of ultra running, like carrying a hydration vest or like fueling while you're running for long hours and running on trails. I didn't do any trail runs. I didn't own a pair of trail shoes. I ran in like a pair of cross-country spikes and it was yes. I ran ultras and cross-country spikes. That was just I felt light in them. So that's what I wore. And um, yeah, so I just went into the race. I remember looking at the course records ahead of time and figuring out the pace per mile and being like, well, of course I can run 10 or 11 minute miles for 30 miles. That's not too bad. And then immediately from the first mile, just being like, this is not what I expected at all. And it was a three-loop course, and I, of course, went out pretty fast thinking it was gonna take me four or four and a half hours. And then on the third loop, like nearly six hours later, I was just realized what I'd gotten into and that it was not what I had expected. And um, originally I thought that this wasn't for me, and clearly I didn't, I wasn't cut out for this and I didn't know anything. But then when I finished and got recovered a bit after a few minutes, I was like, wow, there's so much I could learn and improve upon. It's like this puzzle that I can solve. And um, there's a lot of potential here. I think if I can just go back and do things the right way and approach it with a more um logical mindset rather rather than going in blind. Um so I signed up for another 50K that evening and just went from there.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

That's hilarious that it literally took hours and you were already signed up for the next one.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Well, and also you you didn't point out that I believe you came in second overall in that race, right? And maybe first woman. So even though it wasn't going so well, you kind of crushed it.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

I I think looking back, I I did better than I gave myself credit for at the time. I was like, wow, that was not what I expected. I expected to run an hour and a half faster, but I just think my concept of every trail is different and you gotta take into account how technical it is and how much elevation there is. And it's not just you can't just go out on the trails and expect to run the pace that you do on the roads. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

I mean, it translates the same, it translates the same as like uh like young cross-country runners when they think like, okay, if I can run a five minute mile, then like I could certainly run like 18 minutes in a 5k, and it's like that's not quite how it works. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

So it's I mean it's a mistake once or twice to realize it.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

The spikes might be my favorite part of that story. Like, I cannot actually stab them running for four plus hours in cross-country spikes.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

You're the real MVP because I only bought my first pair of trail shoes in, I think it was October of 2023. So for two and a half years, I did all my my alterns in cross-country spikes. If there were road portions, I would take out the spikes and just wear them as flats.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

But I like I love this so much for you. I think that's did anybody say anything? Like any of the older, like more veteran runners, did they say, like, hey, what are you doing, buddy?

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Definitely, yeah, absolutely. And I didn't want to hear it because they were comfortable. And then yeah, one race that was very muddy. I think it was the Bradbury Mountain 50K. And um, I was just slipping around the whole time. And someone said, You really gotta get trail shoes with actual grip on them. So I did, and and they've worked great from there.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Right. You're like, oh, okay, I get it now. This is how we're these.

unknown 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

All right, let's shift to Cocodona. The moment we really want to hear about because that's your most recent epic adventure. Um I really do think that people need to remember how young you are. Um, the fact that you got to Cocodona, finished Cocodona, that would be like that's a story itself. Like you could have just gone, finished, that would have been amazing, incredible, extraordinary. Um, but not only did you just finish this race, you entered it, you finished it. It seems like you must have had a successful training cycle, but you came in 12th out of all of the women. And we were following along. And for those who don't follow Coca-Dona well, this is not just like a ho dunk 250, people just go. This is like a the pros are there, this is documented, you have social media following. It's it's very well known in the ultra circuit. So talk a little bit how you found Coca-Dona, what your training was like, and then let's walk through that adventure with you.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah, so I've been following Coca Dona the past couple years. They do a really great job of live streaming it and doing daily recaps. And it's just so fun to follow along with. You can get really invested in it throughout the week. So the past couple years, I have been following along and just always knew in the back of my mind I wanted to do it someday, but didn't really know when. And then um last year I dealt with some injuries early in the year, and I remember just watching it um the live stream all week, and just between missing running so much and having so much fun with following along, I was like, I'm just gonna go for it and sign up for next year. That will give me the motivation I need to recover right and um put in a really good training cycle before then. So I signed up and it it's a miracle I got in because it sold out so quickly. Um five or 10 minutes. Um, so yeah, I signed up for it about a year ago. And so that gave me the whole year to get healthy and get in a good training cycle. Um, and I so I graduated from college last year and moved to Vermont. So it was a lot of life changes and um switching from being a full-time student to working full-time. And um, yeah, so just a lot of life transitions, but working on just getting healthy and getting in the mileage. So the training went really well from about late summer when I was fully recovered. I had a stress fracture. Um, so coming back from that was a little bit slow. But really, fall, winter, early spring went super well. And um I felt just really prepared going into Cocodona, but didn't really know what to expect with it being so much longer than what I'd done before.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

What was your training cycle like? I know that you you have been noted a couple of times saying you train sort of on feel rather than like this is your job today to run this workout. So what is your training? What does your training look like, Glara?

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Yeah, I don't have any sort of coach or training plan. I kind of just, yeah, like you said, go and do what I want every day. Um, but I always get in the mileage. I was trying to probably do about like 130 miles a week in most of the weeks leading up to Cocodona, like 120, 130s. Um, and I do all of my running in one run a day. I don't do two runs a day. Um, I like to run before work, so I get up pretty early and um yeah, I get on trails whenever I can and um enjoy just like exploring where I live. I live near the Long Trail and a lot of beautiful mountains and trails. So it's been fun to just um explore around here because I lived in Maine for 22 years and ran all around Cape Elizabeth and know all the trails there, like the back of my hand. So discovering a new place has been really fun. And that kind of fueled a lot of the training for me. Um, but yeah, I don't do a ton of workouts. I just run easy most of the time. Um, not the best about strength training. It's just a lot of like waking up early and getting in a lot of miles.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

You're uh not the first person that we've talked to that loves this ultra world. And there's a common theme that I've noticed it's mostly time spent on your feet. Would you agree if that's how you can find success?

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Totally. Yeah. It's for a race like this, it's less about the miles per week, even though I do have a tendency to get hung up on that. It's more about just the time you're spending out there. Because when you're on technical trails and getting in a lot of vert, it's more difficult to get in the same number of miles as when you're on that easy to be.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

I mean, did you um think all at all about um getting some vertical feet in in your training? Obviously, this one was um pretty well, you had like 38,000 feet of coconut. So A, did you worry about that in your training? And then B, I really wanted to know did you think at all about nutrition on your training?

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Yeah, um, so yeah, for the VERT, definitely. Um, I work four days a week. So on the mornings that I work and I have to get to work pretty early, I usually couldn't get in as much vert. So I would just focus on getting in miles before work. And then um on my weekends, I would usually drive out to a hillier area or a mountain, or um, we have a really good like four-mile ski access road um nearby to me. It's like four miles with I don't know, 1200 feet of gain. So I would do that, um, do some other good hilly routes around here, um, mostly on the weekends. So getting in that on the weekends. And then for nutrition, I tried to practice it as best I could in training. I knew that um there's really no way to replicate what I'd face in Cocodona during training, um, just with amount of the amount of hours that I'd be out there and um the different foods that I'd be eating and available at aid stations. But I tried to practice it as much as I could in training and um get used to eating a lot before I run and um yeah, like practicing eating on a full stomach and um yeah, just eating consistently throughout the run. I definitely could have been better about it. Um, but yeah, it was something I thought about for sure.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Did you follow at all um the idea of like a hundred uh grams of carbs per hour?

SPEAKER_01 18:08

I mean, I I've heard about it for sure, and I try to um focus on getting in a good amount of carbs while I'm running, but I'm not kind of like my training, I'm very unscientific about it, and I just try to eat a good amount and don't get hungry while I'm out there. Um, so I don't, I don't I've never really done the math on how much I'm actually taking it. It's probably nowhere near a hundred. I would I'd say it's a lot less, especially as the race goes on, but it's something I'm working on and I think I could improve upon because I've dealt with a lot of like nausea during races, and I think that's because sometimes I let my stomach get too empty.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

It's hard, right? It's a vicious cycle. We've all been there where you you get yourself to the point where you're not hungry because nothing feels like it's gonna taste good, nothing feels like it's gonna sit in your stomach. So then you don't eat enough, and you're essentially just digging yourself a bigger hole and you know you're doing it, but it's so hard when you're in that moment because you're like, oh, I just don't want to put anything in my mouth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

What about um sleep deprivation?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Did you practice that? I didn't intentionally, but I have been getting a lot less sleep um the past, I guess, year or so, just with my work. I find that I'm up later and um having to get up earlier. So I was always like a nine plus hour asleep type of girl for my whole life. And now I'm probably running on like seven and a half most nights and less some of the time, just depending. Um I never practiced it intentionally, but days when I'm waking up at like 3 30 or something, I would just, I would just like count it as sleep deprivation treatment.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

But I mean that really doesn't that's nothing like what you face in Cocodona, right? Like would you take like 20-minute cat naps? Talk to us a little bit about how much did you sleep?

unknown 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Yeah, so I had no plan for sleep going into Cocodona. Um I kind of figured I would just sleep when I got tired and sleep as little as possible. And then it ended up on the first night having a horrible um bout of nausea and dizziness, which I had never had before to that extent at like mile, started at like mile 45 and went till about mile 60. And I thought I was done at mile 60. I've never been so close to dropping out of a race before. I got to the mile 68 station and I'm like, if I want to continue, I just need a full reset. So I ended up sleeping probably 50 minutes there, and I was like way far behind where I thought I was going to be. I thought I'd blown it. Um, but I just really ended up needing that reset to get back on the course and have a stronger rest of the race. Um and then after that, I don't, I didn't add up how much I actually slept, but it was usually like two 30-minute naps a day. Or I would tell my crew to let me sleep for 20 or 25 minutes. I would fall asleep instantly. And then at one point they told me they had let me sleep for longer than I wanted. So I wasn't happy about that. But it was um and then I took like an hour nap on night three because I was just so exhausted at that point. But yeah, it was just a bunch of like 20 to 30 minute naps. And then sometimes I would get to an aid station and um not be planning on sleeping. But as soon as I sat in the chair, like my eyes would just close and it would be like a five-minute power nap. Um, so it was just all over the place. And that's something I I'm gonna work on for next year is um having a more concrete sleep schedule and maybe like trying some caffeine or like trying to keep myself awake more. And um, yeah, because I think I wasted a lot of time sleeping. I know like the winner, Rachel Everkin, slept for 19 minutes and I slept for hours. So to be clear, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:40

The winner is a this this is her career. Yeah. You know what I mean? Which we'll chat to that. Okay. Assuming you had to have gotten there a couple of days early, uh, or at least a little bit, so that you could sort of adjust. Um, talk about your start line emotions. Obviously, you knew you had gotten the miles in, you knew that you had prepared.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Were you nervous at all? Yeah. Um This was definitely the highest stakes race I'd ever done. I don't race a lot of out or outside of New England a lot. So it was my first time out west. And the starting line atmosphere was just so cool. I I really wasn't nervous at all. Um I was more most nervous about logistics. Like, would my crew have any trouble getting to the aid station? Did I run out of water? Like, how was um like how was sleep gonna work? But I wasn't really worried about the miles itself because I knew I was just gonna pace it as best as I could and take it easy. And um yeah, so I I wasn't as worried as about them as much about the miles as I was about the logistics, but the starting line atmosphere was so cool. Like it was it's the race starts at 5 a.m. So it was dark, and uh, I felt like every time I turned around, there was like another professional runner who I had been following, and it was just so cool to meet so many people. And actually the highlight for me was like 30 minutes before the start, I was um standing around with some of my pacers, and um Rachel Enterkin, the eventual winner who won the football, came up to me and she's like, Oh my gosh, are you Lila? And she gave me like she because she followed me on Strava. She's like, Oh, your training has been great. Like I heard, yes, I am Lila. I am one of that was the highlight of my day. So that was extremely cool person.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

It's not a unique sport. There isn't anything like these stories, like ultra running is almost like the cross-country vibes on steroids, it seems yeah, seriously. Everybody is rooting for each other, like just like we've heard all these stories on repeat, and there's not a single like you're racing each other, but you're also rooting for each other. Definitely. You're all out there just trying to push yourself to the limit and seeing what that limit is, and then celebrating whose limit was the greatest in that adventure, which is just so unique. I don't think there's another sport in the world that is like that. Um, I know you ran, you said you run early in the mornings at home to train, but was it different entering that first night of the race, like running through the night? How was that like? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

So the first night, like I mentioned, was like a really low patch. Um that mile 60. Yeah, so that was the first 50k of Cocodona is um the most difficult part of the course. I don't, I don't know the exact stats, but it's like the first 32 miles climb something like 9,000 feet. It's just all uphill on like this rocky trail. Um, so everyone takes or most people take all day to do the first 50k. Um so heading into night one, I was really only at like mile 50 or 55 as it started to get dark. Okay. Um, made like yeah, mile 60. Um yeah, so I had run through the night before in some hundred milers, and um, just with my training, I'm used to running at all times of day and night. So it didn't feel that odd, but just knowing that I had so much left ahead of me was a little bit overwhelming. And then um, yeah, but I always enjoy running through the night and then seeing the sunrise the next morning. Yeah, knowing that you've been running since the previous day is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

So very neat. The so miles 40 to 60, that's like your first it's when you enter like the roughest part for you. Yeah, 40 through 60 is a marathon. Yeah. So how did you come out of it?

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah. So I had my watch programmed to um show the course, and it also showed how many miles you had left. So when I got to the mile 60 aid station feeling like absolutely horrible and looking at my watch and seeing I had like 194 miles left, I'm like, there's no way I can do this. So I just laid on the couch for a while. It was an indoor aid station. So there was a little couch to lie down on, which was a godsend. And um I was just really like in the depths of it. Like I was going through it, and um, they brought me over to see the medic. And there was a big part of me that was hoping that she would look at me and be like, you can't continue, and you have to go to the hospital and get IV or something because I hadn't been eating because I couldn't keep anything down. So I hadn't been eating or drinking for six to eight hours and was just nauseous and dizzy every time I stood up. So I was really hoping that she was gonna like medically pull me out of the race so that I wouldn't have to because I knew I wouldn't on my own. Um but she took my vital signs and she's like, You don't look very good, but your vitals are fine. I think you just need to take a breather and try to eat and drink. So I ate a bag of chips and had some ginger ale and sat in the chair and felt sorry for myself. And then I just wrapped myself in a space blanket and started walking. And um, then I realized I got to this downhill section and I started running and I'm like, oh, I felt I feel really good now. Like these this chips and ginger ale really helped me like and just taking the rest just helped me like get out of that low patch. And um, if I just stay on top of nutrition and um just keep things pretty easy, I think I can continue on. So I made it out of the aid station somehow and it just got better, which is the cool thing about 200s, you just go through so many highs and lows. And just thinking that as you were explaining coming out of it, like you know it's such a mind game, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Like you know you're in the low and you know you're gonna get out of it, but it's like, do I really want to? Because when you're in the low, you're like, I don't really want to get out of this, I just want to be done. Yeah. All of a sudden there's like, huh.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

All right. It's um, yeah, it's definitely a challenge to try to tell yourself that you're going to get out of the low, but it is possible. Yeah. Take those resets and make sure you're eating. And yeah, I think there are things I could have done differently to keep myself from getting into the low in the first place, but yeah. What were those next year?

SPEAKER_03 27:30

What were those things? Was it nutrition just nutrition, or what else could you have done better?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

I think a lot of it was nutrition, just trying to eat more consistently during that first 50k. I think I was so just concentrating on getting up to the mile 32 aid station, like getting to the end of that crazy climb that I probably wasn't eating and drinking as much as I should have. Um then I think I pushed myself a little bit too hard on the climb. Like I would check my heart rate and it was way too high. And um, that I think can sometimes lead to nausea for me. Um, and then I really hadn't practiced running with my gear a lot. And they have some required gear for the first 32 miles because it's so remote. Um, you have to carry like four liters of water, and I just wasn't used to having that much weight on me. And I don't think I had the best pack for it either. Like it felt like the water was just sloshing around on my back and weighing me down, and I think that just led to a lot of extra effort, and all that combined just led to a lot of like fatigue and nausea by mile 50.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

You've already noted those are easy fixes. That's like a fun thing to like experiment with and knowing that you all right, cool, new pack, figuring that out, gonna eat more, and then it'll be really fun to see like how much more of a positive experience, like if you do this again next year, what miles 40 through 60 look like. Exactly. Yeah, there's so much to improve on. Talk a little bit about the crew and support. I know that every Ultra race is a little bit different. So you said that the first chunk of this you had to be prepared because you're in a remote location. So I'm assuming you did not have pacers with you then, or did you?

SPEAKER_01 28:57

So the first, um, so the first time you can have a pacer at Coca-Dona is mile 75 at the Whiskey Row aid station. Okay. Um so I had two of my good friends, Michael and Sean, who alternated pacing me from mile 75 to the finish. And um, there were some stretches where I was solo, but I think each of them probably both did 50 miles, um, broken up into like 15 mile sections between aid stations approximately. Um, so they were great. They paced me for a really good portion of the race. And then um Michael's mom Robin was um amazing crew uh meeting me at every crude aid station. Um the first crude aid station is until mile 36, so you have to get through that really difficult section first. But the three of them were just incredible and were meeting me at all the crude aid stations and just yeah, I had never had an ultra with so much crew support, and it was incredible.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Do you think it's more what they provide materialistically, like the food, or do you think it's more the energy and the vibe that they bring?

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Just the boost of seeing them and having that moral support and like knowing that I'm not alone out there for so many hours and days is huge. And then obviously they provide so much in terms of like a place to sit down and food, and they would just anticipate what I needed before I knew it.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

So yeah, they have a level, like they're level-headed and you're not at that point.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

They can actually they can be your brain for you when you can't quite think rationally, I guess. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah, yeah, they were amazing. I'm I'm so grateful for them.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

When you say pacer, so does that mean that you had a time in mind that you were trying to hit, or was it just people that just help you keep moving?

SPEAKER_01 30:34

They basically just helped me keep moving. Um I didn't do a ton of research on the course ahead of time. So I would ask my whoever was pacing me at the beginning of each section, like, what are we looking at for this session? Um, I didn't really know, like, I didn't set any sort of time goals for sections. It was just um they would just run with me, make sure I was moving forward and eating and drinking, um, and just having someone to talk to out there is really helpful. So, did most people have that?

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Like what percentage of the athletes had pacers?

SPEAKER_01 31:02

It's a good question. I I would say the majority, the vast majority, have some sort of crew and pacers. I know some people do it solo or they just do it with a crew. Yeah. Um, and I like being out there alone for a good amount of the race, but I also think breaking it up a little bit and having sections where you have someone to run with and talk to. Yeah. Yeah. Keep you on track, especially at night and on the more difficult sections of trail is really crucial. Um, so I think I would say all of the um, probably all of the top finishers had pacers. Yeah. Um, but there are some people who do it solo, which is amazing. And at Coca-Dona you can because the aid stations are incredible. You can do dropbags, so you can make it work on your own. Yeah. It's more difficult.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

I think about some of the images I saw of Courtney DeWalter like sound asleep in the middle of the trail, right? And I think, well, the pacer was there probably to like wake her up in 10 minutes to also make sure she's winning over or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Right. That's one of their most important jobs too, making sure that when you sleep, you get woken up when you're supposed to. Right. Through an alarm or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Lila, your naps that you were saying, did you sleep? Were you like the rest of the pictures we've seen? Were you sleeping like on the side of the trail, or were you taking these rests at the aid stations?

SPEAKER_01 32:10

It was both. I would say it was mostly the eight stations. I would try to wait until I could like lie down in the back of the car or something. Um but there was one trail where it was just this never-ending incline. And I said to my pacer at the time, I had to sit, I just had to sit down and take five minutes. And as soon as I lay my head on the dirt, I was out. So I took a seven-minute nap there. Um, but it was mostly I would try to wait till the gate stations. Yeah. I knew that was.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

I would be like too creeped out about No, I think you'd be so tired.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

I would you'll probably just snap.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

It was like two in the afternoon, so it wasn't like dark.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Good point. Good point, good point. So uh we have to ask, when you got to mile 107, did you do the like crazy basketball shot thing that we saw all over Instagram?

SPEAKER_01 32:56

I was going to. I ran right past it, and then I just I was too tired and I wanted to keep moving. So I bypassed it. If someone had said to me, if someone had called to me and told me to go try it, I would have. But yeah, I just I took a long nap there um at the Mingus Aid Station. And um, when I woke up from that, I just wanted to keep moving.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

And I didn't bypass. Yeah, out of the whole race, because you like think you're gonna be able to do this jump shot, and then you just do not jump. There's no jumping that's going to happen. Yeah. So you get to you get through the majority of this race. It seems like if that was your biggest low between miles 40 and 60 out of the 250, did you hit any other like crazy lows, or was it just more like trudging through to the finish?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah, I didn't have any other crazy lows. I think just natural ups and downs. Right. Um, I really struggled later in the race when I would sit down and take naps. Just getting back up again was really difficult because my legs would get so stiff and tired so easily. Um getting moving again was difficult. And then there was one trail around probably mile 160 called the hangover trail that was very difficult. It was like scrambling and ledges and steep drops, and it was not for someone afraid of heights. And um, so I was getting very grumpy on that trail and this. And um, so that was a low um getting through that whole section.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Um Do you remind yourself like it during those lows were you like, I signed up for this, I signed up for this, I did this to myself? I was trying to.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Um, yeah, and I did this to myself. So it was yeah, the rest of the race was just kind of natural ups and downs. But um, my stomach was fine. I didn't get nauseous again, I didn't get dizzy again. It was just the natural fatigue of running that distance.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

How often were you running with other competitors?

SPEAKER_01 34:47

That's a good question. I would leapfrog with some people, and then if I would pass them or they would pass me, we would chat for a few minutes, but it was not more than a few miles. A lot of times people were were with their pacers.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Um, I found that in the early sections before you could have a pacer, everyone was just so focused on moving forward that people didn't run with each other a ton, at least in the section that I was or like the group of the race. Um then after you could have a pacer, a lot of people were just kind of one-on-one with their pacers. Um, but there were definitely um people that I spoke to and people who my pacer and I chatted with. And everyone out there is just so friendly and it's a great experience. You learn something from everyone.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

At what point did you start letting yourself sort of dream of the finish line? Like where I know you kind of have to like hold those reins in. Like you can't really get excited at mile 100. Like you really have to kind of like hold it together. So, at what point did you start to like start dreaming of eating at the end? Start envisioning that finish line. Like you're like, oh my gosh, I'm almost in flagstaff. Where did you allow yourself to start celebrating?

SPEAKER_01 35:52

I would say it started to seem real with like a hundred miles to go. When I saw that I had had a hundred miles left on my watch, I just thought I'd done this before, even like 130. I was like, it's the longest I've done before, plus a little bit. Um, so it really started to seem manageable then. And then um there were more difficult sections of trail and it felt unmanageable for a little while. And then there were some really fast sections in the second half where I was able to run a pretty good pace. And I don't think I really started celebrating until I got to the bottom of Mount Eldon, which is five miles from the finish or four.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Um final push.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah, yeah. The last um part of the race climbs up and over Mount Eldon and Flagstaff. It's a pretty difficult section. It took me a lot longer than I thought it would. Uh, but once I got to the bottom of that, it's just an easy trail and then running through Flagstaff. So that really it felt real getting to that last aid station.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Can you picture like the time, like what time was this happening? Like your last couple of miles was this during the day, was it at nighttime? Yeah, it was so cool.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Um, I got to the top of Mount Eldon around it was just starting to get kind of dusky out, and the descent was a lot more technical than I expected and steep and with like 245 miles on my legs, I wasn't moving super efficiently. So I fell a lot on the descent and was getting pretty frustrated. But my goal was to just make it down efficiently before it got dark. So it was getting darker and darker as I descended. And by the time I got to the bottom, I had to turn on my headlamp. So it's probably around eight or so. And then I finished, I think I finished just after nine, uh, like 9.15 p.m. or so. So it was dark at that point. I'd been running in the dark for a little bit, which was kind of cool. I think I think it was a time to finish because it's not it's not like the middle of the night. People aren't right at bed or like not there because it's late, but it's also it's cool to finish in the dark. So the time that I finished at. As you cross that finish line, Lala, who were you most excited to see? I was just excited to see my crew and pacers and celebrate with them. They ran me into the finish line the last um like mile and a half or so, and that was really fun. Um, and then just everyone at the finish line was super supportive. And I actually ended up, I was sitting in a chair like 10 minutes after I finished, and I saw the medic who had um taken care of me at the mile 60 aid station, and she just happened to be there, and she was like, Oh my goodness, I can't believe you're here. You made so cool. I gave her a hug and thanked her for getting me through that low point. Um, but yeah, it was just a very cool atmosphere, and we went back the next day and watched some people finish. And yeah, it's just the coolest community.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Now that you say that. So I went when I was researching, I went and looked at the results. And there's somebody who finished like a minute past the cutoff. What's what was the cutoff? 175? No. One hour. I think something like that. And I think he finished at 12501. And it just like and so he's not listed as like the finisher. Yeah. I mean, I feel like stuff like that is just what an accomplishment, but oh, that's gotta hurt, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Yeah, yeah. And it's like he still covered the distance either way. I saw that video of him finishing, just giving everything he had. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

A lot of inspiring stories.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Incredible for short. I can only imagine that there's all this buildup to this race, right? Like you're training and you're training and you're training, you're thinking about this race, thinking about this race. You go through the race, that's its own adventure. And then you finish, and it's almost like is it a sigh of relief, or is it of like, oh man, like now what?

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Yeah, it's sort of both. I was so excited to finish and finish feeling good and like I wanted to do another one. Yeah. It was a lot of, wow, that was so fun. I can't wait to do it again. But then there's also that a little bit of, wow, that was such a fun adventure. Now it's back home regular life. But yeah, I mean, I love my day-to-day life, so I couldn't complain about getting back to it. And I always have another race on my calendar. So there's always something to look forward to because that post-race letdown can definitely be real. So just having something else to look forward to. It's gonna be so real.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

What's the next race?

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Yeah, I'm doing um Vermont 100 in July, about two months from now. Um, I've done that once before and been signed up two other times and not made it to the starting line due to injury. So really hopeful that I can make it this year. And yeah, that's one of my favorite races ever. And I can't wait to go back. It was my first hundred. So where it's a repeat race for you, Lila, do you have any big goals for yourself? Definitely. I don't usually set goals and I don't go back to races a lot, but Vermont 100 is so special that I feel like I've unfinished business there. Um, I just want to run a lot faster than I did the first time. I and I think I can. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

I think you did pretty well the first time though. Didn't you come in third or something?

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yeah, I did. I did better than I expected. Um, I was not crewed or paced that year. So this year I'm gonna have crew and pacers and hopefully um just get the most out of myself as I can with all the logistics on that end taken care of.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

I love the confidence that you have in yourself. I think it's just it's so inspiring that you're just continuing to find like your limits and you're not settling. Like you just finished Coca Dona, and you could totally be, it would be respectable if you were like, I'm gonna ride this high for a little bit, maybe I'll do Cocodona next year. But you're like, nope, doing Vermont in two months and I'm gonna do it better than I did it last time.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

It's it's incredibly inspiring. Thank you. Yeah, I'm I'm hopeful I can, but you never know. And it's this is the a sport where just finishing is an accomplishment itself in itself.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

It truly is the the the the biggest goal is to finish for everybody, is it not?

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Well, and that's like what you said before, right? And that's the thing, everybody wants everybody to finish, right? You guys in this ultra world, I feel like everybody's just rooting for people to crash that line. Totally. That's what's so cool, and I think that's what draws people to it, and that's what like Lindsay said, we hear that ad nauseum, like that's what it's about. It's there's so much less competition. I mean, sure there is, but um the competition's with yourself.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

I just I think that it's it's really neat that you're starting this when most people don't enter this world until their 40s.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Um and it's kind of it's becoming trendy in a good way, it's just becoming more popular and more like well known, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

Are you by far the youngest person at these races?

SPEAKER_01 42:05

So usually usually I'd say yes. In the past couple of years, I've been seeing more and more people my age or close to my age, which is awesome. I feel like my first year I was always the youngest at races by a good amount. And now I'm seeing it get more popular among people my age, and I have friends my age who I train with who do these races. And that's really cool to see. So it's definitely people are realizing that it's something you don't have to wait until you've done the marathon and your speed is gone, and it's like competitive in at a young age.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. And it's making that world more competitive, it's very cool. Um do you listen to music or like podcasts when you're doing these long distances, or is it completely solo on your own?

SPEAKER_01 42:44

When I'm training, I don't listen to anything unless I'm on the treadmill, which I try not to be. Uh in the dead of winter when it's really cold out, I do do the treadmill sometimes. But when I'm outside, it's usually early and dark, and I just want to be focused on my surroundings. So no, I'm just I'm just out there.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

I love it. And during races, still nothing?

SPEAKER_01 43:04

No, not usually. Um, during Cocodona, I had my pacers play some music a couple times, but it was mostly just we would talk or I would I didn't listen to any music myself. I was trying to save my phone battery.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

True. Oh, I that's right. I mean, you have to load the GPS map too, right? Before, oh my gosh, there's so many pieces to the ultra world. It's so cool. Yes. Um right. So to wrap things up, by the way we normally do what we call fire facts. So I'm just gonna ask you like five quick questions and whatever comes to mind first. Okay. If you were to pick your favorite memory of Cobadona, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 43:41

One of my favorite memories was going through Sedona and seeing Sedona for the first time. There was this moment at like mile 140, probably, where the sun was rising and there were these hot air balloons in the sky, like over the canyons, and it was just the most beautiful view ever. And I was feeling great. I'm like, I can do this. It was the One of the first moments where the finish line kind of felt in sight. Yeah. So that's a really cool memory. And then of course crossing the finish line.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Right. I mean, that's like the given. I should have said like without crossing the finish line. That's obviously going to be the most fun. Um, what was the first thing you ate when you finished?

SPEAKER_01 44:14

I had a cheeseburger. They had those for the runners at the finish. So I was like, just whatever you've got is like Seriously.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

Yeah. Full feast.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

Um, I know you said you trained in your cross-country spikes for a long time. What do you currently run these races in?

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yeah, now I wear Mount to Coast shoes, which I really love. Um, I ran Coca-Dona in the H ones, which is the hybrid road trail shoe. Um, and I do a lot of my training in that as well. But I also love the C one, which is like the road trainer kind of super trainer. Um, so yeah, Mount to Coast is what I train and race in.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Um I've never even heard of this shoe, so I need to do some research. But unrelated, this is totally what happens when we do firefacts, they end up not being fast because then I think of things that I want to ask you. Have you had people like sponsorships reach out to you since Kokodona?

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Not since Cocodona. I've worked with Mount to Coast for about a year now. Um get shoes from them and they're wonderful. Um, but I haven't had anyone reach out since Kokodona.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

I feel like that's crazy. I think that you're going to I hope, I hope that like in a respectful, slow, not overwhelming way, people and companies start to reach out because 12 female is insane.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

How many women ahead of you finished that um that that's not their career? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Yeah, I don't know. That would be interesting to look at how many people are full-time and how many people are also doing this with a full-time job.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

What piece of advice would you give to that young runner who might be dabbling with the idea?

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Oh, it's so hard to boil it down to just one piece of advice, but I would say that there's just so many ways to like discover this world of trail and ultra running. There's so many um things you can do to start to get involved. Like try volunteering at an ultra before trying one. Just get a feel for the vibe in the community, and you'll fall in love with it. Um, try running on the trails, get some trail shoes and um start small. Maybe try like an uphill mountain race or a sub-ultra trail race just to get a feel for racing on the trails. But my advice would be to just go for it. It's the best part of running and best like community in running. Um, and there's so many opportunities to be part of it in whatever way fits your schedule and what you want to do.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

That's spot on. Do you think that it would be easier? Easier might not be the right word, but let's just use it for a simplicity. Do you think it would be easier to enter like a backyard ultra before entering a longer distance so that it's more like a composition of how far you can go in the same loop?

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Or yeah, I think backyard ultras could be really helpful for someone who's looking to start out and like set a distance PR but wants it to feel more manageable. Like this is just the loop that you're running, and you don't um you don't have to worry about cutoffs or getting lost in the woods, and it's just very manageable. I think that could be a great start for someone. Um, I think the the two drawbacks would be someone who has a really competitive mindset might push themselves longer than they should. When like if they just started out with a 50K race, that might be manageable. But if they do a backyard, they might have go end up going like a hundred miles and getting into more than they bargained for. And then the other pieces, if someone is more like they really like exploring and being out on new trails, they might just get bored with it and um not want to go back because it's running those loops is not for everyone. Um, I've only done one back backyard and I absolutely loved it. Yeah. So I think it's really cool to try out. So I think it might be something good, but maybe not for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Touche. That's a solid answer. All right. Last but certainly not least, if you were to go on an easy run with anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it be?

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Um, oh, I should have thought about this more. I would really like to run with um Rachel Entrickin. She just seems like such a cool person and um just hear all about her Coca-Dona. And I just the amount of hours that she finished ahead of me was insane, and I have no idea how she did it. So I would love to ask her a bunch of different questions. And I'm sure she's doing podcasts and writing articles as well. So I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

I'm sure. Uh well, it was such a joy to meet you and to talk to you and hear your story. Lila, you're such an inspiration. I hope that young, honestly, I hope that young high school runners listen to this and know that if you're running cross-country or if you're running track right now, that it doesn't have to end at 18, or if you're finding success like you did, you don't have to go that NCAA pathway. You can go and do what makes you happy and find success there too.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. This was really fun.