Steven Fritzsche- Finding the Ceiling

WE'RE BACK! After a few weeks of family time, Andrea and Lindsey are back with new conversations to share... What happens when you discover, maybe a little later than expected, that you’re really, really good at something? Steven Fritzsche didn’t follow the traditional path we often associate with elite distance runners. But somewhere along the way, running became more than running. A first half marathon turned into a win. A win turned into faster times. And eventually, Steven became a 2:25 marathoner and a Sugarloaf Marathon champion. But maybe the most interesting part of Steven’s story isn’t how good he’s already become.

It’s the question of whether he’s even close to his ceiling yet. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Welcome back to the main shakeout. Today we are going to talk about what happens when you discover, maybe a little later than expected, that you're really, really good at something. So Stephen Ritchie didn't follow a traditional path that most of us would associate with distance running. But somewhere along the way, running became more than running. A half marathon turned into a win, a win turned into faster times, and eventually Steven became a 225 marathoner and a sugar loaf marathon champion. But maybe the most interesting part of Steven's story isn't necessarily how good he's already become. It's where the ceiling is going to be that limits him. So welcome to the podcast, Steven. Tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into maybe the running that you're currently doing, maybe what just normal life looks like for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah, thank you, Lindsay. Thank you, Andrea. I'm I'm really happy to be on the podcast. Um so uh a little bit about what my regular life looks like. Oh gosh. Um a little it's pr pretty boring, but no, I'll give you I'll give you the highlights. No, uh so I I I live in Maine. Uh I grew up here. I moved away for college and all that, and then came back uh a while after. So kind of a traditional story of uh grew up here and wanted to see what the outside world was like, went and did it, and then discovered I kind of wanted to come back. So right now um I I'm self-employed. I recently transitioned out of working in healthcare policy and work in political forecasting and political trends forecasting specifically. So um, you know, I work uh by on prediction markets and I use my own money to uh to predict real-time events. So it turns out I had a knack for that, and that's what I do full-time now. Um yeah, so I I do that a little bit at my leisure, I guess I'll say. So I recently transitioned from a fairly orthodox traditional nine to five job um into uh right this self-employment. Um so yeah, it's it's also a little bit different, a little bit atraditional. Yeah, but yeah, that's a fantastic introduction for me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Oh well, all that flexibility allows a lot of kind of for running, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, also a lot of time for just sitting around lacing up my shoes, drinking some coffee, you know, seeing if the weather will change, get us a couple degrees warmer, a couple degrees cooler, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

That's what we all do. So you are you from Pennebunk? Am I getting that right or wrong?

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Yo, that's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Okay. And then what was childhood like for you? Did you run when you were younger? Did you play more traditional sports? Talk a little bit about your youth.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I was not a runner. Uh, I did not grow up in a family of runners. Uh, I didn't even own a pair of real running shoes, I think, until age 25.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Um, so all of the even the um, so I did do a little bit of running along the way, but it was it was sort of it was happenstance, right? So um I played a lot of tennis and I did a lot of swimming. So that was really where I focused uh my my athletic pursuits. But in my family, we really wanted to focus on school and academics, and that was the first priority. But after that, you know, you my parents did, you know, we wanted they wanted me to try uh a bunch of sports. And so I tried a lot. I hated a lot. I tried baseball, I hated it, soccer, hated it. Um I even did uh like a youth track summer league, and I think I hated that too. So honestly, so I and then uh in sixth grade, um I could join like the track and field team, and it was a very short season, right? Yeah. Um and there, you know, there were no cuts, um, it was, you know, which was great, and I could try out different things. So I tried out sprinting a little bit and I was terrible at that. But I figured that out. I tried the hurdles and I couldn't make it over the hurdles. They said they say if at first you don't succeed, try try again. And so I gave it a total of three times and I couldn't still couldn't make it over the hurdles.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

And then I thought, okay, we're not we're not gonna do that. Maybe once I hit my growth break. Um but and and then there there was the I think it was 800 and then maybe the 1600 or the mile, and a lot fewer kids wanted to do that. Right. Um, and so just by nature of having some endurance uh and and being willing to kind of keep on doing the laps, um, I noticed, hey, I I can do, I can be uh six out of eight people who want to do the middle school mile instead of 40th out of 42 people who want to do the 200. Um and but I I think I just did it maybe just in sixth grade, and I didn't do any more organized running until the end of high school when I did a couple years of cross country. Um, I was uh I think I was an unremarkable cross-country runner. Um I I liked it, um, but it was a way to be fit for for swim season.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Um, it was something where you know you could join, right? You weren't gonna get cut. You might be on JV, but you know what, you weren't gonna get cut. And I could run in my tennis shoes. Um so you there it was a very low barrier to entry uh to be on the high school cross-country team and be a mediocre and unremarkable runner on it. Um so that's that's really where the the the running then leaves off because I then was a college swimmer um and did a few years of college swimming at Tufts um a okay, go to the mama over here. I actually transferred, so you maybe you're the only one.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

Where'd you end up going?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Uh Pittszer College.

SPEAKER_04 6:27

I have to.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

So Pittszer College, it's a it's a small college, it's part of the Claremont Colleges. So it's in Claremont, California, but it's with you know Pomona, Claremont McKenna, Scripps and Harvey Mudd, and and then Pittszer. Um and all the schools have their uh unique focus, uh, but you all all the students take classes at all the colleges, and you just walk right across the right across the road to all of them. So I I you know got to go to all, you know, got to take a class at all of the colleges, and you know, it's it was a big change to go out to sunny Southern California. Um, and so I I swam at Tufts for a couple years.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

But I I didn't, you know, I wasn't really clicking, you know, that stuff wasn't clicking there.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Uh the program wasn't clicking with me. The the like the academic program, right? Uh also wasn't clicking with me. I was pretty depressed. I really didn't like living, you know. I at the time I really didn't like living there. And no, I wanted a big change.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Um, and so that's what I got.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

Were you happy in California?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

I loved it. Loved it. Loved it. Um yeah, I I I I love Pittser College. Um, and so that's where that's where I graduated from. Uh and you know, that's I think where I did some of my first runs in in you know, years.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

So what were those first runs? Were they more just like, I'm gonna lace on my shoes and go for a run? Or was there some longer goal there?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Um so uh I think a couple a year or two prior, I had was, you know, uh complaining to a friend that, oh, you know, I I would run, but I get I get blisters every time. And they were telling me, well, well, what do what do you run in? And I was like, I was thinking, I was probably saying I'd run in like 10 issues. And they were Steven, I I I think we've identified the issue here. And they said, you know, go into go into some store, you know, they'll help you out, and you know, they'll they'll kind of see what works with your foot with your feet and see what it's like. And I was was like, oh wow, this this is way more enjoyable. Yeah, uh, my feet hold up way better, um, and it's a way healthier experience.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Um, and so then I, you know, when I moved out to California, but I both actually had a real pair of running shoes. Um, probably a Mizuna, I I forget what the Way Rider edition we were on at the time, probably walk and two or something. Um and um so the first runs were um I didn't own a running watch, of course.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Um so I would run from my apartment um in Claremont, I would just run uh five, six, seven miles about uh up into the foothills, and then I would just come back.

SPEAKER_04 9:27

So did you enjoy were you like, wow, this really feels good. I'm having a lot of fun. Like, what were what were those first runs like? Or was it like, gosh, I really wish I was in the pool doing some laps?

SPEAKER_00 9:38

I it it felt no, I think it felt really good. Um one thing about um college swimming, even division three swimming, is um things are s things are going to be really measured, right? With your intervals and things are things are really competitive. And you know, at TOPS is a really um it's a really fantastic academic program. So, you know, you're with people who take their studies really seriously, right? So you're really committed to all the things that you're doing. You try really hard in everything, including including your NESCAC uh swim team.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Um and so then instead of needing to come up every 50 or 100 yards or whatever and see what your split was on the clock and how many seconds of rest until the next one, yeah. I knew that I ran approximately 12 miles. It took me approximately this much time. And that was on that page. Yeah, and I wasn't doing it every day of the week, of course, you know, maybe just a few days of the week. Um, and what one fantastic thing about about um I don't, I believe it's it's Claremont. I don't want to speak more broadly than the city of Claremont, but um, if fruit trees, if the fruit is hanging over like the plane of somebody's property, it's fair game. Like you can't you can't reach into anybody's yard, of course, but people have like they have like all these kinds of orange trees. Oh my god, and they're just going all the way over their fence. And I'm like, oh, this is great. I didn't bring any gels with me, I don't even know what those are.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

I'm gonna grab an orange.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

There you go. There you go. It's got a little hydration break and get it was so it it felt like a really fantastic way of enjoying something for the sake of it, trying to find real pleasure in the athletic pursuit, yeah, as opposed to it being something which you like every day you were going to be pushing yourself to the level of exhaustion and measuring how much you could do to the level of exhaustion.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Um, like you know, so so it was very different. And I think that was how I could kind of could rediscover that this was something that I might like.

SPEAKER_04 11:58

Okay, so and then fast forward a little bit. So then you just started running, or it sounds like you didn't run for a while.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

You didn't compete, right? Yeah. Like you weren't doing road races or anything in college, were you?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

You were running for your own enjoyment.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Um, when does that part enter? It's like early 2020s, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Um, yeah, I think it would be I did a couple, uh, they were like really low, there were local trail races putting on by uh starting line run studio.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Um which uh Daniel uh Daniel Cruit uh is the owner of it. This run studio portion doesn't exist anymore, but she's still a fantastic physical therapist. Anyway, so she had uh this run studio where you could run on uh their woodweight treadmills, right? And so they they feel it feels really nice to run on, and that was during the kind of the the winter when COVID, you know, the winter of 2020. And so you know, she did a really good job keeping the place um, you know, safe for people uh to come and exercise. Um and she then put on some trail races the beginning of 2021. Um I you know, I was listening to your your last episode had uh had Lila on.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Yeah. So I actually like raced against her, and this was like my first race in oh god, no. So I mean since I mean since what what cross country regionals of my you know senior year, so like 2007, yeah, 2007. Yeah, and then fast forward to 2021, and I show up to this local trail race and like Lyle is there. I'm like, oh my gosh, like mean running is so intense. The group of these people. I like and she, I I think I got like second place and she got third, and she was like nipping at my heels. I'm like, who's who's who is who is this like a kid like fresh out of high school?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

So crazy.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Um yeah, so that would that was where I that was where I met Lila um and and raced against her for the first time and and certainly noticed her potential, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Um yeah, and so I I did a couple uh a couple of trail races that then, so that was 2021.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Um, and then took on, kind of kept biting, biting off a little bit more at a time, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:27

Yeah. So it sounds like though you went from, you know, swimming intense, numbers, numbers, numbers to I just like to run. This is super fun. And then you kind of started migrating back to numbers, numbers, right, right? Is that fair? Then like you got off the trails, which is a little bit well, it's a little bit more, I don't know, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

I feel like trail running is like like early level, not early level, like when you when you find running for the first time, like you said, you're just running ish. It's like I'm gonna run like five to six ish. And I feel like trail running is super conducive to that world where like you want to be competitive, but you're being competitive with yourself and it's all ish. Like, I'm gonna just gonna go run hard based off my effort, not necessarily like tracking my mile pace. And then you ended up on the roads again.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I I I think the running on the trails was a really good segue for me because I I didn't want to be, I didn't even have a watch, right? How could I be measuring my splits, right? So I so um so it was a good way because I I didn't want to be measuring how fast I could I was running at the time. I I yeah that wasn't part of it. I needed to rediscover it for a different reason. And then it kind of like when I can do it my own way, when I'm deciding to do it for myself, when it's out of my own volition. Yeah, then I wanted to go back to okay, well, I I I have a watch, I'm measuring my splits, I I have like a whoop, so I'm measuring you know my sleep and my dad, you know, I I had my lactate threshold measures one time, you know. So, so yeah, absolutely going back to a data-driven approach and incorporating that, but understanding that if I ever were to lose uh like the the love of movement that I rediscovered in the Southern California foothills, then i everything was gonna fall apart. I would start to hate it. I would be, you know, right back where I was, you know, in the pool uh, you know, in you know 2009, 2010, suffering through something and really miserable.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

Yeah. So is it fair to say that you are still loving it at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Absolutely. Which to be clear, not every, you know, not everyone. Not every time. But yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

You start you you run that ultra race, your trail running, then you shift. That was early like 2020-ish. And then did you win Sugarlope in 24?

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah, so I I did. Um, I attempted one real ultra to be clear. So the race I did against Lila was actually a 5k. That was like a totally small, yeah, yeah. Um so I I did win in 2020. Wait, 2024.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

22735 says the notes.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

There we go. Oh, time flies. Time flies. Yeah, um, yeah, I I did. So it was on I was on quite a roll. So that was I did did the first marathon in the main marathon in uh the fall of 2021.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Um how did that go? Yeah, how did that go?

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Um I I I didn't know if I was on beginner's luck or if I was I didn't know what was going on. I ran, I think it was 234. Holy um, which which I think is a pretty good marathon debut. Very good. I didn't have really a runner's background and I'd done I'd done a like a my first half marathons like like a month or so before that.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Um but that just shows like all of the like being passionate about the sport of running first instead of being competitive with it first. I think it's truly helped you get to where you are currently because you were doing this for yourself and you weren't necessarily chasing down times. It being a it's like ignorance is bliss, you know. Like that race, you have no idea what was like you just said you didn't know what was fast or what was not fast. You just went out and ran hard.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

That's really kind of what happen what happened. Um, I negative split a lot on that first race because I kind of went out what kind of uh how I felt comfortable doing it and kind of came back in how I felt uncomfortable doing. Um But uh yeah, yeah. Um I I then kind of kept up the kept the role going. Um I had a couple injuries in well, I had a strex fracture in 2022. Um my sister passed away in the fall of 2022, so there there were a couple personal setbacks there.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

And um and then took a little while to to get my feedback under me. So um, but I um it in the interim, I had discovered uh Valor Track Club in Portland. Um they uh Paige Mills, who's our coach, she moved to Maine um in 2022, early 2022, and formed the team uh around the spring of 2022. I joined it a couple months later. Um, I was looking for really, I was just looking for another group of people to run with. Um and a lot of I was, you know, I had you know, had been to a couple of run clubs, I had made a lot of really wonderful friends that way. Um, but a lot of them have a more social or recreational aspect to it, which I love and support. I was also looking for a group of people who were looking to chase some fast times and were looking to have some hard workouts on occasion.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Do you mind seeing if I back you up a little bit? And if you if this is too personal, then just feel free to ignore. But I I feel like everyone that's in the running world always has like there's some personal piece that either running has helped them get through or or the other way around. Like running could be the therapy or it's the thing that kept them going. Do you think that you said you took a break right around when your sister had passed away? Do you mind me asking if running played a role in helping you get out of like that awful, I'm assuming awful time in your life?

SPEAKER_01 20:27

I I don't mind you asking that question.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Um so I I can think of two times in which running has absolutely um, you know, it's been a lifeline. Um you know, the the first the first was when I was leaving Tufts, I was really, really depressed. Um and in in a way, like even simple movements, right? Like you know, getting out of bed, going to class, showering, they felt like monumental efforts at the time. And if when uh I would be running or force myself to to do some movement, uh like uh eventually some of these thoughts which are run like constantly running through my head, you know, preoccupied with, they would fall away a little bit or they would, you know, the things would be a little bit quieter because at a certain point I'm focusing on where are my steps, where am I landing, what's my breath?

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

What what does something hurt, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Yeah. Um a good description.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Yeah, I exactly. Or and and to remind you that you're living in your own body. So you these are your sensations, and and when we can get so wrapped up in our own in our own heads and our own thoughts, you know, we really start to lose touch with ourselves. And running could help me reconnect with my physical body, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Yeah, ground you.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Ex yeah, precisely, precisely. Um And developing that and um that relationship with running, I developed a similar relationship with yoga, where I could come at it through a non-competitive perspective, and there was still a lot for me to gain.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Um, and I was not judged based off of the performance. I was judged based off of well, my intention to be there and to participate and to be open and to try.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Um, and then uh when my sister passed away, uh, she had a a rare genetic uh condition called leafraumani, um, which predisposes you predisposes you to developing early life cancers. Um so she she got cancer uh in 2015 for the first time, and then um had to recur a couple of years later and then had brain cancer, um, which you know she eventually passed away from in 2022. Um and she's uh you know two years older. Um so you know, we were uh very, very close. Um yeah, if you can think, you know, how hard would this hit you? You know, just as hard as you would. So it was devastating. Um there's no other way of putting it. And you know, and in a way, running it it helps when I would feel so incredibly overwhelmed that again, all of these small things feel so intense. Getting up, going to work, right, like getting your groceries, cooking your meals, washing your dishes, running could be this act of bringing myself back into my body and reminding myself that I am here, I'm alive, I need it, I have purpose, I have intentions, and I I need to keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

That is such an important theme. I mean, we I think I don't know how many people we've interviewed, and it's everyone tells a story of running as not time goals, not number goals, but it has a purpose. It always ends up having a purpose other than a race, a time. It it always does, and it's it's so interesting, and it's um so I guess it's so important. Like I can think of people who just need to just hear it, right? Just like it grounds you, it brings you back to breathing and steps, and sometimes that's all you need to just get to the next part of your day, right? It's incredible how consistent of a theme this is.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

It's been there when I've needed it.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, on a I guess on a lighter note, talk to us a little bit about that Valor Track Club. Uh like um, can anyone join?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Joined. Anyone can join?

SPEAKER_04 24:57

Just as fast people want to join. That's right. Yeah, talk to us about that.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

No, so it is it is truly all levels, um, which is I think one of the things I it's really one of the things I love about it, partly because there will be people like me who come in who are at one level and then they get to a different level. Yeah, yeah. And so if there's only if there's a team that's only for the fastest, only for elite people, there will be people who are kind of fast or the people who are sub-elite who don't feel like they have any place at all.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Right. So, and that there's no way for them to uh get to that higher level. You're either a pro and you're the fastest, or you're not, and there's no way of getting there. That's not right. Uh so anybody can join. Um uh, you know, you can you can go to valor tcportland.com, you can um find us on Instagram, Valor Track Club Portland. Um, the we're the East Coast branch. I didn't know the yeah, a bi-coastal uh uh track team. So the original uh Valor Track Club is in Orange County, California. Paige Mills uh you know was part of the team and and you know was uh was a coach out there and then moved uh you know, she's from New Hampshire, so she moved back to New England and then formed the East Coast branch, uh Valor Track Club Portland in the again, the spring of 2022.

SPEAKER_04 26:28

And so the club provides a group of people to run with, but also does Paige then offer coaching, or so somebody like you who's trying to get to that next level, sh what does does she provide that expertise to help you get there?

SPEAKER_00 26:41

So it's going to be what you what you make of it. So absolutely can. She absolutely can. She's a fantastic coach. And you know, when you come to practice, there will be some structured workouts there for you to pick from if you'd like. If you want to. Um and you can just ask people, right, what they're doing. If you want to have her, you know, lay out a personal coaching plan, she can do that for you. But they uh these are going to be all if you want to just come simple, let's say you just want to come run with us a couple times.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

You don't need to pay, you don't need to do anything. Just come, you know, 6 p.m., Fitzpatrick uh stadium track, open practice, Tuesday nights, uh when the weather's good, you'll find us.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

I think right this feels like an invitation.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yeah. Yeah. So come any, come anytime. Um you know, except in the winter when we we gotta move, we're gonna move elsewhere. Um, you know, sometimes we we use indoor track uh at USM, um, but we also sometimes just suffer on the winter roads. Um but yeah, so right now, you know, now this time of year, uh sometimes we have 50, 75 people.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Oh my word, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Yeah, they're they can be really big. And we have we have a youth team. I know as well.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

I knew this because there are some kids. Uh so I coached, well, I technically retired this year, but um high school track and cross country at Bangor. And in the summer we would do like summer track stuff, and there were some kids wearing Valor singlets, and I was like, what the hell is this? It's sick. Like these kids are really, they look like they look so cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Yeah, no, I yeah, I I like it. Uh so we have youth sizes. We got youth sizes and adult sizes. Do they work the kids? Um, the kids will work out uh usually it's an hour before. So like we will come. So there sometimes is you know, the parents will bring the kids, you know, for at five and then and then they work out at six or something.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Um vice versa.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

So yeah, um, but if if you're interested in signing your kids up there for that same thing, go go to our website, just Google search us, uh, go on Instagram, reach out to Paige. Um absolutely the let me tell you, those kids are fast.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Yeah, they're sort of fast. Like, yeah, they're maybe that's why I just assumed that Valor Track Club would be like this elite thing because I've watched the kids in SummerTrack. I'm like, these kids are no joke. Like they're insane. Um, when did you join the Valor Track Club?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

So I joined in the you know, spring or summer of 2022.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Okay, so that really was right around when you started finding like I don't want to say six success can be measured in many different ways, but when it comes to like time, like success with how fast we were running, was right around the same time.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

It absolutely helped me take off.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Absolutely. I wouldn't be anywhere near I near where I am without the team, without Paige, without you know, the people I run with. Um without the main running community. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

I was gonna ask you, do you have some peers then in the group that are sort of running the same time so you guys can help each other complete the hard workouts or the runs?

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yeah, absolutely. There's so you know, I I I I joke that I'm gonna be like uh that I'm gonna be on the JV team nowadays because I'm just not bad. Um I'm for I'm really fortunate to have the teammates who I do. Uh there are a few of us who few of us who have already qualified for the Olympic trials and the marathon. Um and um so I am that's that's again that's so that's where uh my aspiration is to also uh qualify for the 2028 Olympic trials.

SPEAKER_04 30:26

Um that's a question. Wait, so you have already qualified?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

No, no, no. They have. They have. I'm just trying to be like them. You're on the varsity, that's they're on the varsity. I'm just on JV now. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Um what is the qualifying time? Is it 214?

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Uh so it's two hours and 16 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

And what's your PR?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

225.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

Okay, but what's the what courses have you raced the marathon on?

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Uh the the so I think the Millinocket one.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Yeah, it's right. Like not a best option.

unknown 31:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Uh I mean the the sugarloaf one I would say is the fastest course um that I've run on. Um so uh I um I watched a few of my teammates uh qualify for the Olympic trials at the McCurdy Micro OTQ um in March of this year in New York. Um so that's a race for people who are on the cusp of an Olympic trials time. Um and I had qualified for it. I wasn't I was not ready for it and deferred my entry to next year. So it'll be sometime in 2027.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Um, but got to go down, see the see the way that they run this course, which is it's unique, right? The ed people don't race, you run single file, you run on a painted tangent line around a looped course. Everybody has bottles for every stop. Um, and people don't try to outkick each other. Everybody just tries to get in right under the qualifying time. Right.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

Um how long is the loop? How many miles?

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Um I tr I should look it up. It's it's uh approximately three miles.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Oh, so it's a lot of loops, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

Okay, cool. I'm assuming like minimal elevation.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Totally flat.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

And no no sharp turns, right? It's like an oval, like a nice, yeah, nice wide turns. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

And when you have to go by, what's the like the cutoff to for the for the trials?

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Uh for the for the trials is is 216. Uh true to be in the race, the McCurdy race is it's more or less my my PR, it's 225 or something.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

So But when do you have to get the 216 by? Or like I mean to get into the trials.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

This is important for me to know.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

We could get back to you on that.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

It's gonna be sometime in 2028.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Like right now. Oh, you have time.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Yeah, you definitely have time.

SPEAKER_04 32:57

So, and then while you're looking that up, my question for you is what how do you plan to get uh how how are you gonna get that 10 minute PR? What's the plan?

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Grinding away. Uh I so I see. Um, so I was looking up this uh this other thing. Uh allow out this time. Okay, we're back.

SPEAKER_04 33:22

Did you get your answer?

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Uh sorry, will you ask the question again?

SPEAKER_04 33:26

I did. I will. Um what and you answered grinding away, but the question really was 225, you're trying to get to 216. That's nine minutes, that's a lot of time. So, you know, what's your how are you gonna get there?

SPEAKER_00 33:38

There are a few things that we're I'm going to be doing. Uh one is I'm working with Paige uh directly. You know, you can come to the team like I'm saying, you can just come and practice. There's no no charge for that. If you want to be part of the team, there are annual dues, there are all sorts of benefits to being on the team, including you get you get the cool singlets, you can look like the cool kids. Right. Um and then and then you know, if you want some coaching from Paige, you know, she'll work with you on that.

unknown 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Um, so part of it is working with her on that. Part of that is being to emulate is part of the strategy is to emulate my teammates who were able to achieve it.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Uh how many teammates do you have that have already qualified?

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Uh there are there are two of us on Valor.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Okay. Who are they? Do you mind me asking?

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Uh no, not at all. Uh Colin Cernick.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

And Aaron Willingham.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

I know from race results, not I don't actually know who they are, but familiar names. Um so you're working out with they're both on Valor. You're working out with them weekly at this point, correct?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Pretty much, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Okay. And you have, I mean, in theory, you've got like a year and a half.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Well, I just looked it up. He has until January 25th, 2028. Oh, you should write that.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah, I should. I knew it would be a little bit a little, you know, it's approximately right 45, 60 or so days before the when the trials will be. Yeah, okay. Right? Yeah. Um you got time.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

So um the, you know, another component of it is, you know, one reason I um, you know, one thing I was addressing this last fall was I had, you know, I had started racing really poorly actually last summer and was wondering why. And I felt like I was like checking all of the boxes and doing all of the things you would normally think to do if stuff's not going well. And still kind of racing pretty poorly after another month or two, and went and just got some blood tests and found I have something called I've low feridin, which I knew was related to iron, but I had no idea what ferritin was. And so I've been working over you know the last six months um to with to essentially get that level back into a normal range.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

And how do you do that? Is it through nutrition or is there more to it?

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Um well, uh there um so I I've actually needed some iron infusions because my mine was so low. Uh generally you need to, you know, people should talk with their, you know, their doctors about about the other things that that might be related to having low ferritin if you find that you do. Um because it it may not simply be that you're just not having enough iron. There could be other things. So, you know, we needed to do some tests to rule out that there could be uh, you know, other factors or other things at play. And I know that runners, distance runners, right tend to run pretty low on iron. It's often a problem.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Um, and while I I eat some meat, but um, you know, I've never been a big red meat guy. And I I and so I knew I would be at risk for it anyway. So I've long supplemented with um with iron. Um and so I've needed to kind of switch types and switch.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

Are you feeling better?

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

Are you feeling better? Are you feeling a difference?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So um in January of this year, the I there were a few weeks where I was running 20 or 25, 30 miles a week compared to 70, 80, 90 miles a week. And I was suffering through every single one of these miles. Um and um and all of the easy runs, which felt really, really hard. Not easy, and all of the workouts felt impossible. Um, and so you know, I I raced at the USATF Club Cross Country Nationals uh in Florida in January, and it it oh lord, it felt awful. It was gonna feel pretty bad no no matter what.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

But it's different when it's bad because you're working really hard versus it's bad you feel like you're working hard, but you're not getting the results that you should be getting for the amount of effort you're putting into it.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

You right, this felt different.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

This felt different. So at at that time, I had already gotten some of the treatments, but they they take a little while to kind of kick in. Um and so um part of the plan for the coming year and a half uh to qualify for the trials is to be actively monitoring and treating these things.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Um and to be and to have a more active approach, right? So when things don't feel right, we try to take that seriously.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Right, not wait a couple of months until you're really in the hole.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Certainly, certainly. So that certainly that really was a limiting factor. So um I'm I so when I ran 227 at Trueloaf um earlier this year, I I was totally surprised because all of my running has been for all of 26 had been horrible.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

The times were way off what I, you know, what I normally run. And I had no idea what to expect going into that race.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

It was like everything was starting to flip back to your normal, it seems like. Like maybe all of the treatments that you've been like slowly starting to help you because 227, I'm sure you did not think you would be able to do a 227 if all of your runs were inseparable at that point.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

No. Uh we were targeting 230 to 235. Uh do you think?

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Oh, just that um I had started to feel a little bit better the few weeks before, and it started to build up a little bit. But I when you think of a marathon build, you're talking months, you're talking 12 weeks, 16 weeks. I had maybe four or five weeks of training, good, good training uh before that race. Um, so no, I had no idea what to expect.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

You finished not far behind Adam Quinn. Do you know, do you know him personally, or do you know him like through races?

SPEAKER_00 40:04

No, I only know the the back of his the back of his head from from from from getting dropped by him at the sugarloaf marathon.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

Uh well, I mean, I he must have I the what's hard about marathon times, the results is I mean, I wasn't there. I didn't see it. You even if you're there, you can't see the whole race. So you see this time, and you guys are less than a minute apart in the in your finishing times. So was that like a you saw him the whole race, or did you guys run together? Did you duel back and forth? Like what happened that race?

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Um, I got dropped by him maybe a mile and not even. I and then didn't see him until the last little bit.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Yeah, I did. I did. That's hard. Um it it can be really hard. I think during the marathon or any race, it can also be it can be helpful to work with with other runners. It can also be like more intense, it can be stressful sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Um, and so one thing about sugarload marathon is that it's it's you know, it's a relatively, I don't know if relatively, but um, there aren't a ton of people who do it.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Um and it's point-to-point. So you and you know, there's a 15K, but you really don't run into the 15k runners.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Um, so uh you you have there's a decent chance you might be doing a lot of it on your own.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Um, and for whatever reason, past couple of years that's worked out okay. So um, no, I I've met Adam after these races. He's uh he's a fantastic guy. Um uh and I'm happy, happy to keep losing to him as long as we both go faster.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Yeah, and um he he put on the jet from from the gun. Um, and so I don't think I could even see him maybe after four or five miles, and then I didn't see him again until you know, maybe maybe four or five miles left.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

So did he die a little bit and you did you negative split?

SPEAKER_00 42:13

This year, no. Uh I didn't. Um, but we I faded less than he did.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Yeah. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Yeah. Uh we've had really good weather for this marathon. I've done it a few years now, um, and we've had really good weather for it. This year it, you know, it was a little hot, um, and particularly by the by the end. So at the at the start of the race, not so bad, but then you you lose a few hundred feet uh of elevation. So then, and then the sun comes out a little bit more, and you know, you bent on your feet working pretty hard for a couple hours. Um, so I I think that that explains why you know he's a really good runner. You know, I think that explains why both of us ran a minute or so slower than than last year. Um it's really a lot to the to do with the weather.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

Sorry to interrupt. What do you do for nutrition on the race?

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Um, so I I take maybe five, five gels.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Um this year I took a lot of Martin, the caffeinated Martin ones.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Um I used to use something called glucose G L-U-K-O-S, uh, which was um it was kind of it was pretty watery, but it was just like sugar water. Um but it it went down really easy. And um, but I that company went out of business. I can't find them anymore. Um if anybody if anybody has a hot tip on the G L U K O S in the back of your plug, yeah, get in touch with me. Um yeah, so you still have the Martin, uh the Martin gels this year.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

Yeah, those aren't bad. No, I think they go down easy when they mean anything else.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Yeah, don't yeah, try it the for the first time before race to see what it's like because it the texture. Sure is different.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

But once you're going to be able to do that, it's definitely different than your typical goo. Like it's not, it's like a it's like a chunk of mucus. I think it's like cello. Sure, or jello. Yeah, that works too. Um, what is your what's like the key to your your um your success in your training plan? Like are you a high volume guy? What is your typical training block look like?

SPEAKER_00 44:23

I I am a relatively, I guess I suppose a relatively high volume guy, though it, you know, some elite marathonners um are doing a lot more miles than I am, I guess. So so I maybe just to put it in perspective, um I I would peak for for marathon training a little bit over a hundred uh miles a week, but um a lot of the build will be spent in the 80s, um which we know which is pretty high. But um, of course there'll be there'll be marathon runners who kind of they they start around 100 and then go up to you know 120 or something.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

Right. It's all depending on what your body can tolerate I was just gonna say. How did your body hold up?

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Uh so I I am qu I've been lucky to be um almost totally injury free. I had one stress fracture which um you know I was able to run through, uh, which is with just a reduced load. Um, but but apart from that, I've been injury free. And I uh I do a lot of yoga, I do a lot of strength training. Um, and those are some things that I I learned to do uh prior to learning to be a runner.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

Yeah, yeah. Uh we have to cross-train at all.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah, uh people will tell me, hey, you should just like get back in the pool and do a little bit of that. I feel like I'm allergic to water now or something matter. Like yeah, yeah, I'm not a swimmer, I'm a swammer. I'm done with that.

SPEAKER_03 45:59

That's that's in the past. You need to revisit. Yeah. All set. Okay. That's how I feel about the pool. I like trained one time in the pool, and now I'm like, I haven't been back in in a year. I'm all set. It's a hard task for me. Um, let's tap in. I know you talked a little bit about your future. I know that you want the goal is to get to those Olympic trials. You talk a little about how you're gonna get there. Um, what do you have on your horizon for races?

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Uh next one up for me is uh the third Valor Twilight meet. So we put on uh a series of three Twilight meets. Uh, people can find out the details online, you can register. Um, so I'm gonna do that on um in a couple weeks.

unknown 46:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Um I'm going, I'm either gonna do the mile or the 5K. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Oh, so they're short.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Yeah. Uh so that's a track track race. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Um, following that is Beach Shabacan.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Yeah. So that'll be fun. Um, I think that's gonna be I think it's gonna be a very fast year for main running.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

I feel like the last couple of years, it just keeps building. Like main running right now is unmatched. I don't know that it's been like this. I you use the word elite because that's what it feels like, this elite since like the late 80s, or I think the 80s when uh Gary Allen's basically his crew. Uh there was like a chunk of men then, a few select women, and now it just feels like it's so fast. Like main running is so good right now.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Punching way above our weight, right? Yeah, to use to mix our metaphors.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

Yeah. Do you cross paths with like Luke Marksansky's or like the group that he's running with? Because I know two of those guys, I think it's just project. Yeah, they just qualified for um the trials, I think.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

So um, so Alec Alec Troxel uh and Luke Marksankis are um are on me, yeah, or part of mean distance project because they're also uh located in Portland. We do run together. Um so and and Alec Troxel is uh recently qualified for the Olympic trials and the same the same McCurdy Micro TQ. Um yeah, so uh we are uh two different two different birds, but we do flock together.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

I mean, don't we all, right? Yeah. Like that's running. That's long distance running. All right. Do you listen to music when you run for podcasts or anything? No. I love that. That's like the dust answer. Hard pass.

SPEAKER_04 48:32

Okay. Well then we can't ask you about your favorite song, so we'll move on. Okay, we're gonna do so. We usually end the five uh end the podcast with what we call fire facts. So we just kind of ask five quick questions, just give a quick answer.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

Um the I I love my um on uh the track spikes that they have. So I think it's the on 10K uh spikes. They're they're fantastic. They feel just like second feet for me. Yeah, so I love those.

SPEAKER_03 49:09

Okay. What about trainers?

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Um, I like I like the Mizuna. I like uh the Wave Riders like uh and I like I like some of the on shoes again.

SPEAKER_04 49:21

Um I think he's looking for an on sponsor. Yeah, on the spot.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Oh full disclosure, we have we have uh uh Valor Chat Club has a relationship with on. Oh, okay. So we are we yeah, we we do have a uh relationship with them. So um as you know, if you join the team, you'll you get discounted. You're discounted on shoes, for example. Um so yeah, we do so I do run in a lot of those, but I I also you know it it needs to be what works with your feet. So not not all of on shoes will work for for for all my races. Like, for example, I did the um the sugar lift one in the Adidas uh Adios Pro.

SPEAKER_03 49:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Um which I yeah, the great the Pro Treats, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

Yeah, those they they look like clouds. Oh really? Yeah, yeah, they're sweet. Um all right. Post long run or post-race meal.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

What's your go-to? Oatmeal. Oh, after you run for real?

SPEAKER_00 50:21

I'm just I'm oatmeal always. I love that for you.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

Okay, so do you this isn't this is my debate in our house. Overnight oats or warm oatmeal.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

I do love overnight. Um you know it's gonna be seasonal. You gotta make things seasonal. So right right now, um overnight, and uh I have a good uh there's a raspberry farm by me, so I've been I've been picking my own raspberries. Uh so overnight oats with with the raspberries.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

All right, you sold me on that.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

That's true. That's true. Um third question What is your most memorable racing moment?

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Good or bad? Um Wow. Most memorable racing moment. We're just something to think about. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Okay, well, I get I guess I'm cheened by giving you two. Um well the the first the first time uh I burst out crying after a race was when I won the Sugarloaf Marathon. Um it was like a seven-minute, it was a like a big gust time for me.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Um and like, you know, all my team was there, my parents were there, but it was Mother's Day, my mom was there. Oh, that is so overwhelmed. Um, and so you know, that's gonna stick out.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

And I, you know, that's uh, you know, that's a beloved memory. Um you know, when we did this uh USATF Club Cross Country Race earlier in January, they so in some uh cross-country races, they put some obstacles on the course for you. You know, here in Maine, cross-country running, there are enough obstacles on the course for you. You don't need to put any on there. But um, you know, they put like you know, bales of hay or logs or something like that on the course. And down in Florida, they put these bronze alligators.

SPEAKER_04 52:24

I was just gonna say gators. Why?

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Yeah, yeah. So there were logs and then these like metal alligators that were maybe like they they were relatively small. I don't know, they were like so. There would be three or four gators on a log. That's awesome. So no matter what, you no matter where you wanted to jump over the log, you also need to jump over the gator.

SPEAKER_03 52:47

Like how big?

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Um, I would say, right, so maybe each gator ranged from three to five feet long and maybe you know eight to eight to twelve inches wide.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

So excessive.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Yeah, because it were also on top of the logs. And if you hit the logs, that's gonna be hard on uh hard, you're gonna go down, but then it's like a metal gator on top of it. Yeah, and it was a a 10k 10k race and a 2k loop. So you you went through water, which they you know, which was put in sand, so it would be brown, but then they put some chemical in it to make it bright turquoise blue. Oh my god, after you ran through the bright turquoise blue water with the sand, you ran through a sand pit where they put like fake palm trees on the side of it, and then you ran through the alligators, and then you needed to do it four more times.

SPEAKER_04 53:47

This feels like a child's fun run. Like it doesn't really retain exactly.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Oh, total opposite, right?

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Like not fun, like seems terrible, but anyway.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Oh that's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

That's insane. That was you said that was that was in January.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Yeah, that was the most recent club nationals. Yeah, for whatever reason they had uh the 2025 club cross-country nationals in January of 2026.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

Makes sense. USATF?

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Like I just feel like this that's that is insane. That's not believable. Like that's really weird. I feel like I need to go Google image search this course. Yeah, you need to see the yeah, alligator statues. Yeah, that's wild. That's for sure memorable. I don't know how you could not have that be fun of your taught temperature. Yeah. Um, all right.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

One piece of advice, Steven, that you could give to your younger self. Don't swim.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

Yeah, I I would I would tell myself that uh I don't I don't need to always listen to myself or to other individuals. Uh, because I I have taken you know, whatever I am telling myself, or whatever a coach or whatever some other runner, or you know, even just a you know, even just uh an uncle at a family reunion musing to me about long distance running, I've taken that as you know, chapter and verse and something that, okay, well, this is true. And if I say I can't be this good at running, or if I say I can't chase this person down, or if I say I can't finish this race, you don't those things can start to become true if they were not otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

And when we start to internalize these messages that other people are send sending us, um they they can really weigh us down. And so while you need to balance those things with being rational and being safe and having a healthy approach with it, there are almost certainly going to be people who uh want to discount your achievement and want to discount your potential, right? And you are not required to believe that.

SPEAKER_03 56:02

That's awesome. Yeah, what a great message. Great message. Yeah, truly, that we all can be reminded of frequently. Take that to heart.

SPEAKER_04 56:12

Um okay, final question. Um this might be a hard one, but um, if you could run five miles with anyone dead or alive, who would you run with?

SPEAKER_01 56:22

And why?

SPEAKER_04 56:23

And why? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Oh boy. Um, if I could run five miles with anybody.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Um gangsta boo just to have her back, just to have her back for the music. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 56:40

Um I love it so much. Deep and heart. I love it. I love it. You never know what you're gonna get with this question.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Nobody said gangsta boo before, right? Uh the first one perfectly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Well, thanks for taking the time to chat with us. Um it's so lovely just to be able to expose like people that are not in high school or college and still finding success in running, especially in Maine. So thank you. I know that you have a busy life, and we really appreciate you taking the time to let us get to know you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Thank you both. It's my pleasure.